TKOverKill

"Lets just all hug and shoot something!"

Great quote. I'm making that my signature.

I am glad you like it lol. I got plenty more where that came from but not suited to type here lol.

Well I'm with you there Wiskie but do we really need to use a video of people killing and being killed. I don't know but this kinda thing strikes me as insensitive to the marines in the video and the dead Iraqis at the end.

Hmm... I believe I can safely conclude that CQB is a very stressfull indeed, combat itself is a very stressful exprience.

When I trained at SAS-T last Saturday, I just did some drill (shooting 2 targets, reload, shoot again, transition, etc), and I found out that the stress level is pretty high, especially when the instructor point out my mistakes/urge me to hurry up when I do the drill. I made a lot of stupid mistakes, such as using a gun on my left hand while aiming it with my right eye. I even experienced some tunnel vision; I didn't realize that the slide of my handgun already move backward and need reloading when I'm aiming it a few centimeters in front of my eye.

I know that I'm inexperienced and not conditioned for a stressful environment, but I can imagine the stress level on the field, especially when you know that you can lose your life because some simple mistake.

Due to the exchange between tifast, Wraith and Brandon, I could realized that there're many differences of act in CQB between real life and airsoft. It means I need to customize what I see from visual resource of real life on youtube so that I can use it in games i.e. airsofter's real life.

Well it seems that my point has been completely misunderstood over overlooked. As far as looking at this video in terms of what we can learn about CQB and what we can apply to airsoft, there is not a lot it can show us because its bloody obvious those Marines in the video are shitting themselves and doing whatever possible to avoid being killed. Nothing we can apply to airsoft there. Did you see these guy rushing into and clearing a room tactically? nope. It was a case of stall, retreat, assess, fire a few rounds blindly, enter, assess, bring the building down with armor. Nothing against them because thats what anyone who values their own life, given the huge amount of danger involved in what they were doing, would do.

Anyway, my only point that is relevant is that I thought it was insensitive to show dead people on an airsoft (hobby(unless your hobby is killing)) website.

Am I totally off my head or something?

Not at all Tobo,
I remember a game that was held last year and the organizer suggested that it be based on Vietnam, and that it be a milsim of that period, etc. I had absolutely no interest in that. I think that there is a fine line between the gaming, sport, hobby aspect of airsoft, and the cross over to real life where people are being killed. I agree that showing a video of people being killed is insensitive, but I wonder if many of us (myself included) aren't being more and more desensitized by the constant onslaught of violence in our media and culture...

I feel a moral dilemma coming on.

......

Personally, I hate war because war is really hell. I've been "internally displaced" (or became a refugee) before thanks to the riot during 1998. During that time, it's only a civil riot, but the loss that occured to victims is just like war. A group of people did a lot of atrocities (rape, loot, arson, etc) for racial reason. In another part of my country, there are even a civil war that's going on for decades, only to be stopped by forces of nature. There was a soldier who sat beside me in a plane a few years ago, and he told me that before peace, if the army meet rebels during jungle patrol, they'll open fire at each other.

I play airsoft because airsoft is a fun and bonding game. I also liked gun, and want to join up as officer in the army. Eventhough if somehow I managed to join the army, I will still hate war, for the reason why I joined army is not a patriotic one, but for personal experience.

I have to agree with Dstole (or GingaNinga?). I believe that thanks to journalist who got up close and personal to the warzone, we got fed with more pictures about war. I do believe that what thouse brave souls want to say is that war is hell. However, the effect of seeing war too much could desentized us. Take a look at Rambo (the new one), and you'll notice far more gore compared to previous ones. Hollywood is getting more gore (or gorier? sorry, bad grammar) because the audience is used to gore.

Wasn't there a thread a while back showing some British troops using a Javelin to level a sniper nest in a tower or a minaret? The video indicated that the sniper was in the tower when it was destroyed (or at least that the troops hoped he was). Interesting that that thread didn't engender this same debate. I wonder if it's the distance from the killing, or the visible bodies in the aftermath that affects how we view things like this. I remember thinking at the time, "Awesome! They're firing a javelin like in MW2." My second thought, when the tower exploded was, "Somebody was in there. A combatant, but also just a dude doing what he thought was right."

The trouble here methinks, is that we have a diverse group of people in this group. Some of us are current or ex-military, while some of us are avowed liberal pacifists, and I'm sure we cover most of the political degrees in between. For the civilians, with only a knowledge of airsoft and no military training, our frame of reference causes us to look at things like this as an airsoft example. What can I learn from watching the pros? This doesn't mean that we view combat lightly or the stress of putting your life on the line trivially. It's merely a product of our only frame of reference coming solely from doing things like this in a game. For me, I guess it's important when watching this to bear in mind that lives are at stake, watch respectfully and refrain from commenting critically on something I know nothing about.

On Tobo's point, is it appropriate here? If people are interested in this and other examples of combat, and it seems they most certainly are, then I think it is appropriate here. Perhaps it should be moved to off-topic, rather than general discussion, as having it in this section implies it is related to airsoft.

I don't think there is much to add to this thread from this point on. Maybe some admin might consider closing it?

I don't think it needs to be closed...it's moved into a discussion about the video and the way people feel about it. Other members might see it and want to add something. I don't think we should close it just because we have had our say. I think as a forum we need to let discussions happen and evolve. As long as people aren't getting angry and disrespectful of each other, then I think it is OK to keep active. If no one else has anything to add it will eventually fall away of the top page.

Well that's the thing, people did get emotional about all this, so I just hope it doesn't resurface in a week from someone taking a fresh look at that and getting all rowdy again.

Really? I didn't see anyone calling each other names or throwing around insults...just people doing their best to express their personal opinions. if the other mods want to close it I will leave it to them, but I am OK to leave it open.

My reaction to people wanting to get emotional about anything these days is answered by ThunderMidget's signature lol.

No doubt. I'm sure for some posts that signature will seem irrelevant, but on this thread it makes a of of sense.