TKOverKill

When I was thinking about using lipos, someone showed me this link, and that sobered me up...
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In particular, this list of failure and fires was ominous (post #4):

FIRE DURING CHARGING:
Operator Error-
9s pack catches fire while being charged at 10s setting. (9)
2s pack catches fire being charged as 3s (10)
2s pack catches fire when charged at 3s setting (13)
2s pack catches fire in plane while charging at 3s setting. (22)
3s pack charged at 4s voltage ignites (27)
2s pack catches fire charged at 3s (30)
2s pack ignites when charged at 10.2V (31)
Overcharged battery (34)
2s pack charged at 11.1V catches fire. (36)
2s pack charged at 3s setting (40)
2s pack charges at 11.1V burns – (44)
2s charged at 11.2V goes off in garage – (47)
2s charged at 3s voltage ignites in garage – (49)
2s charged at 3s ignites in workshop – (52)
Another count problem – Heli burns (57)
Cell count error caused fire – (61, 62)
Pack charged on NiCd setting - (66)
Run Down pack catches fire during charge – (71)
LiPo Burns during charge on 109 charger after mode mis-set (82)
Charging slightly swelled pack causes fire (86)
Li-Ion cells catch fire from charger setting error (88)
Cell catches fire during attempt to repeak - (91)
Charging puffed cell causes it to ignite – (93)
Lipo burns during attempt to restore overdischarged cell with CC/CV PS (94)
Pack ignites during charging – smoke corrodes shed and contents (98)
Possible damaged pack burns like rocket in can – (100)
Attempt to recharge dead lipo causes plane fire (103)
Charging probably fully charged 3s pack with Astro 109 result in pack ignition. (104)
2s charged as 3s ignites in safe (109)
Restart of charger resulted in wrong charge mode – (113)
Wrong charger settings burns 2 packs – (112)
LiPo burns in modelers hand after charging - (115)
Charging slightly puffed cell causes fire, plane burns (117)
Using NiCd setting causes LiPo fire. Owner forgot to switch over to LiPo setting during charge cycle (118)
Charger set on 4 cells with 3 cell pack (126)
Garage fire during charging (127)
Modeler reports 2 lipo fires from wrong cell count (129)
Lipo charged on NiCd setting ignites (130)
Auto cell count charger fire – (131)
5s2p4000 packs ignites on first charge (133)
Overvoltage charge ignition – (135)
Lipo ignites during charge causing house fire – possible charger setting error. (139).
Too high charge rate burns battery (142)
3s charged as 4s 109 with pictures of burn: (144)
3s charged as 4s burns SUV (Schulze 6-330d) (146)

Undetermined Cause While Charging
Fire damages garage while charging pack. (7)
1500 3s pack catches fire during 1A , 11.1V initial charge. (1)
2 cell pack ignites while being charged with 2 cell charger. (11)
Car burns when pack being charged in car catches fire. (24)
2s2p pack catches fire in helicopter – possible that charger misread # of cells. (25)
2s pack ignites while on charger set for 2s. (28)
$30,000 damage to house when pack ignites during charging. (no details) (43)
3s pack burns in garage – (35)
3s pack burns at correct settings- (41)
3s pack burns at correct charger settings – (46)
3s 8000mah pack catches fire after 15min – correct settings – (53)
Helicopter and pack burns after 15min charge – (54)
Automatic cell count charger – pack catches fire (55)
Automatic cell count charger – pack catches fire (56)
Lipo rockets across room (58)
Automatic cell count charger – Lipos burn in garage (59)
Battery ignites in car seat during charging (63)
Damaged battery ignites during charge (67)
Pack balloons during charge, burns while under water (68)
11s3p pack burns during charging at correct parameters (70)
Another charging fire – (72)
Helicopter burns when LiPo ignites during charge (73)
Undetermined cause to LiPo fire during charge – (74)
Chopper burns from charging LiPo fire (76)
House fire (81)
3s Pack Ignites burning front of car during charge at correct settings. (83)
Helicopter in garage burns while charging (106)
Well used Lipo ignites under correct charging parameters (107)
SUV Vehicle burns (114)
Garage burns during charging – (119) Extensive pictures
2 fiires in 2 weeks (120)
Charging battery in plane fire with 109 – posts 97&99 (121)
Charging 3000mah with Triton catches fire in garage- (122)
Pack in plane ignites while being charged under hood of truck (123)
Fire in Basement – (136)
Lipo catches fire during charging and continues to burn in salt water (138)
Lipo charging in Helicopter ignites burning carpet, drapes and Heli (141)
Lipo charging on hood catches fire - (147)
Lipo charged on correct settings ignites (148)
Lipo fire during charging burns house. (150)
A123 pack burns(?) (152)

FIRE FROM PACK DAMAGE:
Cell poked with exacto knife catches fire- (2)
Dog bites pack, pack catches fire (4)
Lexus burns after pack from crashed plane put in car. (8)
Ballooned pack ignites when punctured. (20)
Repaired pack catches fire when connected to plane. (29)
Pack catches fire after plane crashes. (37)
Pack cut while shrink wrapping (39)
Pack punctured during crash burns. (64)
Plane crashes, pack removed and 10 minutes later burns (65)
Battery pack at 1V ignites while charging (71)
Puffed pack ignites during charging – (77)
Puffed Pack smokes when punctured (79)
Nicked pack catches fire (87)
Plane crashes, battery catches fire (89)
Damaged pack catches fire – (90)
Dog chews pack, chars pillow and smokes house - (95)
Battery compartment screw penetrates pack causing loss of plane (102)
Pack balloons dring mischarge, ignites when punchured (108)
Pack ignites 20 min after Heli crash – (111)\
Nicked pack “explodes in modelers hand” (116)
Intentionally punctured LiPo burns (124)
Dented Heli pack burns i min after disconnecting- (137)
Poked Lipo burst into flame (140)
Lipo Shorted for 4 sec. 3 min later it burns (143)
Lipo catches fire after crash damage. (149)
Punctured lipo catches fire – (151)

BATTERY SHORTED FIRES:
Shorted pack catches fire (26)
Pack burns after shorting (15)
Possible Short (38)
Shorted when moved on table – (42)
Pack Shorted putting connector on and burns – (45)
Shorted pack burns hole in BMW seat – (48)
Crash causes 3s pack to short and burn – (50)
Pack ignites sometime after connector shorted for a short time (85)
Lipo Shorted for 4 sec. 3 min later it burns (143)


CAUSE UNDETERMINED:
Multi cell pack catches fire in flight (5)
Possible over discharge (33)
Lipo pack catches fire in car (60)
2s pack starts house fire (84)

In flight F3A fire reported (92)
New pack partially burns sitting on desk (96)
Pack ignites with no known cause (97)
Pack ignites after soldering wires on (101)
Pack catches fire in pick up truck (105)
In Air ignition – (125)
Pack ignites in pocket (132)
Pack ignites in car at 3AM (134)
Undamaged pack starts to burn in car – (145)
Unconnected Pack sitting on bench burns over night – (153)

OTHER
2s pack connected in series with 3s pack ignites in fireball (78)
Lipo burns garage (99)
Packs used in parallel catch fire in flight (110)
Too high current draw causes fire (128)

Good post Monk.

I tell you what...I will alter my AEG in many ways, but one way I will never alter it is in the battery. I mean, is it really worth all that trouble just for your battery to last a little longer or for you to shoot a little faster? Seriously, that's an explosion and could kill lol.

Not IMO.

Believe me, I want to install one in the worst way. In my case, it woudl allow me to have a seriously cool real steel stock, like a VLTOR.

So, the smaller lipos do let you have more options in your configuration.

However, with two kids in the house, if I DID ever get a lipo battery set, I'd have to store and charge them outside. With the fire hazard, I'd never be able to let them in the house.

Ok I have known about these for a while and have commented on them before. But check this out:

Quote:"Gents,

We “cook” this project about 1 year and treat this project as our top secret. (one of many…) Now, LFP batteries will be released in June!

ALEEES is one out of 5 companies who can produce LFP batteries and is the only one who has soft pack for RC and Airsoft. MadBull is proud to be the solo partner with ALEEES in Airsoft and RC industries.

LFP batteries is one of the latest Lithium batteries and it is “totally” safe! LFP is non-explosive and non-flammable. Check testing video It is a Sci-Fi style of high tech Lithium batteries.

In order to keep cost low, MadBull will *sell directly* to end users at low price.
3 types will be available:
PowerX-01: $50
EnergyX-01: $35
EnergyX-02:$35

Charger / balancer: $50

You can check link here now.

More information available soon!

Best Regards,

MadBull Airsoft"

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Follow the above link as it gives even more information on these.

Anyone with a Nokia will know about these batteries as they recently did a recall here in Japan to replace the old betteries with the Aleees ones.

very interesting...How much bigger they will likely affect their popularity...

Very interested in the Ailees, for now though will look at getting a LipoSack to transport my lipos for now.

someting about lipolies i saw in the net...

To simplify, Lipolies come with 5 values. This is the S, P, A, V and C ratings.

The S rating indicates how many cells there are. Usually, each cell comes in 3.7 volts each. So a 1S has 3.7 volts, 2S has 7.4 volts and 3S 11.1 volts. In contrast, NiCd & NiMh batteries come in 1.2 volts each.

The P rating makes it complicated. This comes into play when batteries are used in parralel to increase amperage. 1P means one battery SET. So a battery stating 3S2P 1100mAh means you've 2 sets of 11.1 volts 1100mAh batts that you've put together in parallel to increase the amperage for a grand total of 2200mAh. Ergo if you want to fire long, let's say you're getting into an overnight game & don't want to recharge... there's no need to purchase the expensive high Amp lipolies. You can simply get two lower lipoly batts and link them in parallel (meaning red & red, black & black) to increase amps - this is not the best scenario, but it works.

The A rating stands for Amperage. Generally speaking this talks about how long your battery will hold a particular current. The larger the value, the longer your gun keeps firing.

V rating stands for Voltage. As mentioned earlier, the number of cells (or S) affects this. Lipolies come in 3.7 volts, 7.4 volts, 11.1 volts, 14.8 volts, 18.5 volts and 22.2 volts.

Finally, we have the least understood part of a battery which is the "C" Rating. The simplest way to describe how C rating works is as follows:

Get a big bucket. Fill it up with water. That's your amps. Now drill ten holes at the bottom of the bucket. Lets just say that the amount of water that comes out is equivalent to 10C. So if you have a lipoly that's 12C... drill another 2 holes for a total of 12. So more water comes out, right? At 15C, you've 15 holes. That's more power that your battery can deliver quickly. So in effect having a 15C battery gives off more power which gives you a higher ROF.

So if you want to use lipolies but have a normal ROF - just get a lipoly battery with a very low C Rating. 8C or 10C. They're far cheaper than the standard 12C batts. Likewise, go visit RC Hobby Shops. The quality of the batts are to die for.

There are very few people in the RC community who fiddle around with the lipolies, why? Its risky. Even among the electronic engineers who do radio control, it is NOT recommended that you open a lipoly pack.

For a 2200 mAh battery, a 15C battery tends to supply power quickly. So if you need a high ROF, this works. An 8C battery also of 2200mAh, will still supply power for a long time. However, it does so it trickles. So expect your ROF to be low. BUT, it'll keep shooting for a very very long time.

One more note on C rating. The C rating affects amperage. At 10C, your amps are exactly what they are on the label. So a 1700mAh 10C battery has exactly 1700mAh. But at 12C, the same 1700mAh battery actually has a total of 2040mAh. At 15C, 1700mAh batts have a total of 2550mAh.

If you want to fire the whole day without changing lipolies... you've a choice between 3200mAh at 12C, or 1600mAh at 20C, or 2100mAh at 15C. In effect, they'll each last as about as long as the other.

Wow.. Nice one Ronald..

I managed to read all through it and found me needing a chicklet type lipoly that can be inserted in my M4 RIS without the ANPEQ.. probably just a 3s.. i will only do semis with it.

Nice.. good read.. Thanks

BTW, do we have this chicklet type lipolies at Akihabara.. Superradiocon perhaps? I'm going there today to buy this charger adapter for my M4 DMR from Lionel.. you the l - type.. not the D 0 type..

I will say this for Lipos, one full charge and they can last at least 2 to 3 full gaming days with room to spare at the end. So far have played 2 full game days before recharging. Currently running a 7.2V lipo in my AEG's and so far fits fine in an M4, M14 EBR and P90. My reasoning for taking a step into the realm of lipo was mainly for the endurance and weight factor. I now carry less spare batteries to games.

bengbengnibong Wrote:Wow.. Nice one Ronald..

I managed to read all through it and found me needing a chicklet type lipoly that can be inserted in my M4 RIS without the ANPEQ.. probably just a 3s.. i will only do semis with it.

Nice.. good read.. Thanks

BTW, do we have this chicklet type lipolies at Akihabara.. Superradiocon perhaps? I'm going there today to buy this charger adapter for my M4 DMR from Lionel.. you the l - type.. not the D 0 type..

I wiwh there are chiklet types lipoly at akihabara... I've been looking for them but couldn't find where they being sold... :?:

bengbengnibong Wrote:Wow.. Nice one Ronald..

I managed to read all through it and found me needing a chicklet type lipoly that can be inserted in my M4 RIS without the ANPEQ.. probably just a 3s.. i will only do semis with it.

Nice.. good read.. Thanks

BTW, do we have this chicklet type lipolies at Akihabara.. Superradiocon perhaps? I'm going there today to buy this charger adapter for my M4 DMR from Lionel.. you the l - type.. not the D 0 type..

Are you referring to Deans Connectors such as one shown below?

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I think the Tamiya connectors might be more popular, but they should carry dean connectors and maybe try asking if they wouldn't mind swapping out the tamiya connectors for Deans.

Yeah the dean..

Thanks Vince..

I got Lionel's DMR and i need to charge the battery for this Saturday's public at UNION OUTDOOR..

Ima go to "SuperRadioCon" at Akihabara this thursday.. Dondi said they have it there..

Cheers Reaper, yeah Bong they're called Dean Connectors and they should have them at Super Rajicon. Just to charge them though, the brand Eagle Racing has some connector adapters that might work for you depending on what kind of charger adapter you have.

Thanks guys.. I might buy a new charger too.. what will be good for me.. you know.. a general charger that can charge 8.4V to 9.6V and higher batts..

Thanks again.. Cheers!