To milsim or not to milsim what is the question? Or a better questions would be what is your definition of a good milsim game?
I pose this question because I see posts here and there on the topic of milsim but no one has really defined what is milsim. Although we TKO have incorporated some, what I would consider, milsim mods into our games it seems many people are still unsatisfied with our games. So here it is folks you tell us what is milsim to you and how if you could design the perfect milsim game given playing in Japan.
Objectives:
1. Define milsim
2. List specific details on what kind of milsim mods, scenarios, hooyas you would like TKO to incorporate.
Never let it be said that TKO has not been open to suggestions. We take any and all suggestions seriously in order to better our games to meet your needs.
So here it is have at it....
Lock and load!
I never played with TKO yet, so I don't have any basis for comparison, but the airsoft community that I camr up in went by the following rules and was considered to be "mil-sim"
I think the weapons and magazine rules are the main difference between milsim and not.
I. Safety Guidelines
A. Safety
1. All players must be 18 years of age or older.
2. Eye protection must be worn at all times when participating in or observing play. Eye protection must seal around the eye area, and meet ANSI Z87.1-1989 standards for protection. (ex. Paintball goggle/mask, Bolle, Ess, or Oakley tactical goggles). Full seal is defined as not allowing a standard #2 pencil eraser to be inserted behind the goggle or glasses.
3. Face and mouth protection is strongly encouraged.
4. Players that fail to meet safety guidelines will not be allowed to participate in, or observe play.
5. All players must carry a RED in color 'Dead Rag'. To be displayed when the player is eliminated from play.
B. Muzzle Velocity (feet per second)
1. Full Auto - 10 foot Minimum Engagement Distance
2. 365 fps with a .25 gram BB (outdoor)
3. 500 fps with a .25 gram BB (single shot rifles only)
All FPS chronoing will be conducted using Airsoft Elite .25 BB's.
NO OTHER BB CAN BE USED TO CHRONO WITH.
Velocity reducers are NOT allowed to be used during play.
All guns used must be within FPS limits.
Any gun shooting over the FPS limits will not be allowed on the field. Any player found using a gun that is shooting over the FPS limits will be removed from the game and not allowed to continue.
All guns to be used during play will be chrono'd prior to the first game of the day that the player attends.
Remember that the FPS posted in the maximum allowed limit, and not the goal of were the FPS of your gun should be.
C. Special Weapon and Magazine rules
1. Box and Drum magazines - Box and Drum magazines may only be used by a designated support gun. Box and Drum magazines may NOT be used by regular AEGS.
2. Support Weapons - Only designated and approved support weapons may use a box, drum, or electric driven magazine. Approved support weapons are - M249, M60, and the MG42. Approved AEG conversion support weapons are - MG36, and the RPK. (AEG conversion support weapons must have all the correct conversion kits and parts to make them as close to the real steel version as possible)
3. Support Weapons will be limited to (1) SAW per every (5) players - Defined as 5 people (4) AEG's and (1) SAW. (so there can be 1 SAW used per 5 people. If a team has 10 players, then 2 SAWS may be fielded, etc.)
4. Players can carry as many Standard, Midcap, or Star (lowcap) magazines as they want.
5. NO HI-CAP magazines may be used durring a game, or carried on the field. (if it winds, leave it behind)
6. Sniper Rifles - Sniper rifles must be either a spring or gas powered single shot bolt/pump action rifle. NO AEG conversions are allowed as a Sniper Rifle. Snipers must observe a 100' foot minimum engagement distance. Snipers will be limited and restricted to (1) sniper per every 12 players.
II. Player Responsibilities
A. General Conduct
1. The future of Airsoft depends on how we present ourselves both on and off the field. Therefore, you must endeavor to be responsible at all times by observing proper gun handling techniques. Treat every gun as if it were loaded. Don't point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot. Treat your Airsoft weapon as if it were the real thing. If you have any doubts as to how to handle your weapon safely, ask another player. Or, take a basic firearms safety course.
2. Keep your Airsoft guns in a secure and safe location so they cannot be easily accessed.
3. Always transport your Airsoft guns in a manner consistent with the laws governing the transport of real weapons. In a motor vehicle this generally means, unloaded and in the trunk.
4. Never carry Airsoft guns in a concealed manner.
5. Never threaten anyone with an Airsoft gun, even in jest.
6. When meeting in a public place as a meeting area, prior to going to a field. Make sure that all guns and equipment are kept in the car. Do not start gearing up and getting your gun ready before you get to the field. The fact that there are people standing around in camo will be enough to make some of the public nervous. You do not want to give them any reason to call the police to check you out.
B. Field Guidelines
1. Every player must be familiar with the specific rules of the field on which they play.
2. Field rules supersede all other guidelines in the event of conflicts.
3. Violations of field rules will not be tolerated. Violating field rules may result in suspension of play privileges.
III. Game Responsibilities
A. Field Conduct
1. Airsoft is a game of honor, and as players we must take faith in the fact that other players will play honestly and call themselves out when hit. As such, it is each player’s responsibility to maintain a proper attitude toward all other players. Any player guilty of un-sportsmanlike conduct, including yelling, obscene behavior, cursing, or disrupting play can be suspended from play.
2. If you see another player get hit and they did not feel or hear it, do not yell at them. You must indicate to them the specific area that you saw your BB hit them. If the hit player is not responsive to your indication and a second player also saw the hit, that player should respond with "I second that hit." Upon hearing this, the indicated hit player must call himself out immediately. If said player is still not responsive, "parley" must be called and followed.
3. If you see a teammate get hit, and they did not feel it, inform them of the hit so that they can call themselves out.
4. Any form of physical altercation (i.e. fighting) will not be tolerated. If a player is ever involved in a fight, he will be suspended from LVA play for a minimum of two (2) months. If that same player is ever involved with a second fighting occurrence, that member will be banned from all future LVA games.
5. Do not walk into a game that is already in progress. If you were not ready by the time a game starts, wait for the next one.
6. Don't shoot at the players in the field from the sideline.
7. Do not intentionally block or provide cover for teammates after being hit.
8. Eliminated players are forbidden to communicate with those still playing. This includes giving supplies (gas, bb's, etc.) to those that are still playing.
9. Once the game is over, do not remove your eye protection until you are off the field, and in a safe zone or staging area. Just because the game ends, doesn't mean you can take your goggles off.
10. There is to be NO shooting of guns in the safe or staging areas. An area will be designated for test firing and chrono checking guns.
B. Hits
1. Any hit to any part of the body or any gear worn counts as a kill (including camelbaks, etc).
2. Friendly fire counts! If you are hit by your teammate, you are out.
3. When two players engage each other in combat (whether at a distance or in close quarters), and both players get hit, both players are out regardless of who said "hit" first.
4. Rubber knife hits count as a kill (this includes being hit by a thrown rubber knife).
5. Hits to your gun do not count.
6. Ricochets do not count.
C. Once You Are Hit
1. Immediately yell "hit" as loud as you can while raising your hands/gun and RUN off the playing field.
2. Do not continue to shoot after you have been hit, while you are leaving the field, or while you are a spectator.
3. In some cases other behaviors (i.e. playing dead, standing in place, etc.) will be agreed to before hand. In these cases observe the appropriate conduct diligently.
4. Do not remove your eve protection until you are off the field, and in a safe area.
5. Place the RED 'Dead Rag' either on your head, or hold it in your hand, with your hand raised above your head until you leave the playing area.
- Remember there is NO TALKING to other players that are still active in the game after you have been hit. Keep quite and leave the playing area.
D. Surrender
1. Asking for a surrender and surrendering is optional, but it is highly encouraged to ask for a surrender when you are within 5-10 feet of your player and his back is to you, or under similar situations. Please treat others as you would wish to be treated.
E. Special Rules
1.BLIND MAN - If during a game, a player removes their eye protection, or it is knocked off their head, that player, or one by them must yell out Blind Man. Upon the call of Blind Man, all action on the field must stop. There is to be NO SHOOTING at all. Once the call is made, it must be repeated by all players on the field, so that everyone knows to halt play.
2. STOP GAME - If during a game play needs to be stopped for any emergency situation, the call of Stop Game will go out. Upon the call of Stop Game, all action on the field must stop. There is to be NO SHOOTING at all. Once the call is made, it must be repeated by all players on the field, so that everyone knows to halt play. Examples of this use of the Stop Game call would be; An injury or illness during play, Un-protected spectators walking in the play area, A danger to players in the area (animal on field, snake, etc.)
3. PARLEY - If there is ever a dispute during play, call Parley. Once this is called, both parties must immediately exit the field to reach an amicable resolution.
Heres what I think:
(1) Structure
I think milsim works best when you have some sort on command structure. Dividing a team into squads and then into fire teams is a good way of keeping a game flowing in the right direction.
(2) Diversity
In the UK when Ive played milsim games (pretty much all fields incorporate at least a small amount of milsim into their games) we have always had a purpose to be there. The organizers (usually the field) would give a brief at the start of each game stating what it is exactly that we are trying to kill each other for. Now, we could go all out and make a really great storyline to theme the days games or we could (like so many games in the UK) just add a little creative diversity to what we already do. Capture The Flag becomes Snatch the Intel, Team Deathmatch becomes a Ambush and Seek Out the Ambush type of game...etc
(3) Rules
Well it goes without saying that we DEFFO need to implement ammo and mag capacity for a Milsimulation. Its realistic and it also stops people from using 20 round bursts, which I find very non milsim.
I've seen games where they have incorporated Armour modifiers too. This in my opinion is not milsim. For starters in REAL life we would all be wearing armor of some sort and possibly even helmets too but to have a rule that says if you get shot on the helmet you can still play on is really not Milsim. So wear it if you got it and if you don't then no worries.
(4) Playtime
The Mike Burrows game was innovative in that it forced us to play until we drop (quite literally). That game was too hot and many of us (MEEEEEE) felt the heat in our brains and had to sit out. Though maybe it doesn't work as well in the summer we should really be planning a lot more games like this when the weather starts to cool off. Until then lets just increase the time of each game a little. For me the regular 10-15 mins game is too short to get into and tactical type of play and really needs to be increased in order to use the time constructively in planning and executing plans of action on the field (squads and fire teams come into play here).
(5) "MEDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Yeah the medic rule needs to stay. Worked well in the past games especially the Mike B game. Something we could try (with large numbers preferably) is to need to be taken back (once resuscitated) to a Field Aid Station (somewhere other than our spawn). I think this would be interesting because it would bring about more tactical decision making about where to place the Aid Station in order to get troops safely and quickly back there to spawn again (be treated). Another great aspect of this would be the OPFOR deciding whether or not to find the enemies Aid Station in order to suppress the flow of reenforcements.
(6) Piros BANG!!
I wish that they would lift the banning of using smoke and flashbangs in Japan. These really do add a lot of tension and reality to airsoft. If you've never played a game with them then you really have missed out. I remember one game at Combat South in UK when just as i was crossing a bridge into a village I passed a 5ft x 5ft fenced off patch of land with a half buried bucket sticking out. Before I even have a chance to wonder what or why it was there it erupted with a mighty clash sending loose dirt and leaves into the air. I got it all down my neck and my ears were ringing but I couldn't complain. It was the most exciting thing in any airsoft game that I've ever witnessed. Oh and in case you were wondering.. it did count as a kill and there was too many parts of me for the medic to pick up. Anyway, dream on.......
Well thats all I can think of right now. Basically I'm pro milsim and would like to see more of it in Japan. I think as a team we can do this properly.
I agree a little with the above post, however typical "medic" rules such as being tagged back in lead to speedball style play. Bo's wounded rule as found here
http://neasg.org/forums/showthread.php?t=362 has been the best MilSim wounded rule I've ever used. It encourages teamwork, and gives a chance for each player to come back into play. This cuts down on cheating and fosters a teamwork mentality in players.
Just re naming capture the flag capture the intel is not milsim, it's just speedball with a different name. Milsim is a state of mind, it's an entire way you go about the game. Missions should have multiple goals, ways to go about that goal, and possible wrenches thrown in by the event coordinators to keep each team on its feet. For the most part SPACE is needed for this as each team should ahve room to maneuver, if its just force on force, I wouldnt call that MilSim at all. When was the last time outside the revolutionary war in the US that the two sides stood at opposite ends of the field twiddling their thumbs while waiting for the command to charge?
I played MilSim for three years before spending 4 years playing SPEEDBALL in Hawaii. I'm so sick of non scenario "team deathmatch" as they like to call it here that if I dont find some scenario or milsim style games when I move to Hawaii, I'm going to pack it up and call it quits, For me airsoft has always been about teamwork and military style scenarios. Going out and getting uber 1337 killz on da enemy team has never been a priority. Accomplishing the mission with as few casualties as possible is the way to go.
It should also be known that I have yet to play with TKO, although I greatly look forward to meeting everyone once I do get to japan!
I would also like to volunteer my services for holding MilSim events if things to get off to a start by then. I've hosted several very successful MilSim events on the east coast (mostly with 60 plays and under) and I would be more than happy to bring that element of the sport to japan!
EDIT- Here's a good breakdown of what MilSim is and what it isnt.
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=...ilsim.html
I have never played a MILSIM game other than the one at the Mike Burrows game and it wasn't made clear that we were going to play that style game until about 3 or 4 days before the game, so I think it is important to make that announcement when the game is announced (if possible, I think this was an invite game so was probably out of TKO control) as this will make sure that people that don't want to play MILSIM games don't put there name down. It seems that the investment in gear for a MILSIM game is much higher that just a fun day out with your friends playing capture the flag, team death match, etc
In my mind MILSIM should have clearer objectives and command structure, and definitely more space. Weapons and teams should be better distributed (as mentioned above, max # of snipers, SAWs etc). Perhaps also having some "basic training" games before a big event, and that only people that have "passed" basic training can join these games. This will insure that people that come out to these games are serious about the commitment to the idea of a MILSIM game and have a sense of how to work in a team/formation/squad type setting. I think that the Bike Burrows game took a way different mind set to play than the SEALS game I attended the month previously.
Just my 2 cents
As far as playing an Op4 group having different ammo restrictions, I'm not sure that really matters. Just because insurgents are less organized that doesnt mean we should prevent people from squad ing up and playing as a team.
I ran an Op4 team for a year and we had a blast. We used more hit and run and ambush tactics than the Blue Forces, but had the same ammo restrictions. One or two hicaps depending on the days rules, or as many other magazines as you could hold non hicap.
One of the main items to consider is ammo. Rolling out on the field with 2k bbs per person is a great way to let it devolve into paintsoft, something folks here in Hawaii never got through their skulls. If you can stomach the idea of using lowcap and midcap magazines instead of Hicaps and using semi/burst fire instead of emptying an entire magazine, you'll be on the right path.
Even Capture the flag or force on force is a different game when everyone only has a few hundred rounds. Suddenly, everyone wants to shoot at what they can hit, and are looking for teammates to help them suppress targets so they can move, instead of holding down the trigger and doing it themselves.
I'm fully on the side of semi-auto. I only play semi-auto as I prefer being selective with my shots. Playing spray and pray is boring to me, but I sure do enjoy headshotting some fool with one shot while he's winding his high-cap.
I understand what you're saying now Goon. Thanks for the clarification.
I do believe field size is the biggest factor in being able to change from speedball to MilSim. What are some of the larger fields in the Tokyo area comparable to?
maybe about a football field
one side of course but we don't get both side alot seeing as how japan in small and crowded
Ouch, thats very small. Are there any other larger areas?
not that I have seen...Maybe that Place at Fuji
A new field opening up in Kawagoe is just over 3 acres, but we will have to see how they set it up...how much space is taken up by parking, shooting range, seating, etc
hope its big...Village one didn't seem too small...we should play there again