I have been working on a friends SOPMOD and bought a Angel .9 Spring from Echigoya. When I installed it last night I could take 1 shot and then it seemed to lock up. I could get about 3 or 4 shots in Full Auto and then lock up would happen.
The Angel spring is longer than the stock one, and the stock spring is evenly wound whereas the Angel Spring is tighter at one end.
Does the direction the spring is added change it's performance?
I have been using an Systema M85 in my SOPMOD that was also longer than the stock spring and it has been working fine so wonder why the Angel would lock up the gun.
Any hints or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Ok Dstole the tighter the coils are is the direction the spring compresses. So the you need to make sure its in the right way round...... tighter coils are at the back and slip over the spring guide.
Thanks for that FarEast.
By your description it sounds like I had it the right way around, so I will have to investigate a little bit more.
The gearset inside the M4 EBB seems to have lower torque compared to the stock torque of other AEGs. If the sector gear can't build up enough momentum or there isn't enough power left in the battery, it will occasionally lock up even on stock springs. Irregular pitch springs are used so that the initial force needed to compress the spring will be lower and the sector gear gains momentum.
You can try reconfiguring the battery to use 9.6V. This will help in preventing lockups. As a result, you'll get higher ROF and better trigger response. But you may lose the "bolt stop" feature - theoretically due to overspin.
Hmmn. Thanks for the info Hazard. I don't think that my buddy wants to loose the bolt stop feature, but maybe a different spring is in order. Like I mentioned earlier, I used an M85 in mine and it was fine, but the .9J in his (that is irregular pitch) was locking up. I will probably get a different spring and see how it goes with that one.
dont forget that you need to cut the spring to length if its too long as in normal aeg length then it will be too much for the gears to compress, you should buy a stronger spring like an ms120 and cut it down to the same length as the original spring.
NEVER EVER EVER Cut the spring! The spring is that length for a reason!
dude the stronger spring compensates for the shortening. also you do know springs come in different lengths right ?
I was told that the longer spring is what gives it the extra power.
A regular Systema M85 is apparently not that strong a spring, but when put in the SOPMOD uncut the extra length is what gives it the extra power. I have now done 2 SOPMODS, one is shooting 94m/s with a 407mm 6.04 barrel, Laylax type B cylinder, and laylax piston head. The other is shooting 97m/s with a 550mm 6.03 barrel, laylax piston head, air nozzle, and cylinder head. Both have Systema M85 springs in them that haven't been cut.
I believe even custom shops in Japan cut springs to adjust power. In the ideal world it is best not to cut the spring so you won't get potentially unpredictable power output. But I think uniform pitch springs are fairly consistent, so they are the best candidates for adjustment by cutting. Come to think of it, the only visual difference between a Phoenix MP90 and MP100 (for short stroking) seems to be their length, as they have uniform pitch and both are just as hard to put in. But in the case of the M4 SOPMOD it is necessary to cut the spring if what you plan to use is too long. Else, other gearbox components will be damaged.
Here is a conversation I had in PM with a member
"Dstole:
Thank you , I have ordered the SystemA M85. Do I need a new spring guide to go with it or should it be OK as is? Size wise does it need to be cut or shimmed, or anything, or does it just slot right in? Thanks again for your help.
Reply:
Drop in replacement . If you wanna vamp for the sake of vamping, then sure you can replace the spring guide, etc. but not necessary.
Dstole:
Good evening, I hope all is well.
I am looking at putting in the new spring this evening, but I just pulled out the stock TM spring and it is a good 5 cm shorter than the SyatemA spring. Is this correct? Should I just drop it in, do I need to cut the systema down, or did I get the wrong spring? I bought the Systema M85 Teflong Coated Irregular-Pitch Spring.
As you said it was a drop in replacement I just wanted to double check before I put in a spring that was too long.
Thanks
Reply:
It's a drop-in, yes it's longer due to the design of the Sopmod mechbox being different than a V2 (whereas the Systema is for a V2). But this is where you get your extra power. M85 in a normal V2 would give you maybe around a 0.8J, but since you're putting into the Sopmod, you should be getting closer towards a 0.9 - 0.93J."
Where does this leave me? Should I have cut the spring down to the same size as the original SOPMOD spring or is this advice sound?
Dstole, It's ok, you can tell others I wrote that
. My M85 SystemA gave me the 0.9 -.93J. If yours is giving you more, my opinion cut it. I'm with Hazard about this - although it's not ideal to cut, I've done it regularly on other AEGs and they're still running fine. Just take note when you do cut, file off and try to make it as "flat" as possible...don't just "snip" it off.
I cut in 1/2 circles then check power. At least in all the springs I've cut, the power drop is -not- linear! So at some point you may need to start considering cutting 1/4 circles.
Thanks Q. Didn't know if it was appropriate to drop your name in there or not
With the one I just did for a friend I am getting 94m/s (which pretty close to .9J) and mine is a bit higher at 97m/s but I have a longer and tighter barrel so I think that is creating the difference.
The Angel .9J Spring I bought was causing lock up so I might play with that and try snipping just for the sake of experimentation...but we are both happy with the power we are getting with the M85. Only concern is Hazards comment about damage to other parts if the spring isn't cut.
I saw your thread earlier on but didn't comment wondering what others would say. As I've not tried using an Angel .9J in my Sopmod my guess is that tension is too high (may it be for the stock motor, for the battery, etc.). I'd speculate that close towards the end of the cycle, the mechanism combo just doesn't have enough grunt to wind the gears back fully to the last tooth engagement. The stress will most likely be primarily on the teeth engagement first between the piston and the sector gear, and the bushings/mechbox. If everything is stock (except for the spring) either your piston tooth, sector tooth, or plastic bushings will go.
I seem to recall others suggesting getting a higher torque motor or a battery with more oomph but note that the stress will still be there
(it's just that the torque motor/battery will help the gears cycle fully).
Out of curiosity, any reason for trying the Angel 0.9J? Not saying it's bad but curious on your goal.
As for my comment about different length springs, yes you can get a spring with the same length but different power. Or different length springs with the same power. Not all the manufacturers wind their springs up with the same grade and tension.
When I went to Echigoya they didn't have an M85. The one I bought for my own was a yahoo Auctions buy and I couldn't find another one. They didn't have the M85 at the shop and when I asked the staff told me the Angel .9J would be OK. My buddies SOPMOD was shooting at about 84 at the time and the staff said I should get about 10-15m/s from the Angel, so that seemed about right. When I got the Angle home and installed it it was locking up right away, so I took it out and reinstalled the stock spring as I didn't want to do any damage and I didn't think the lock-up could be good for it. I went to Frontier yesterday and got another M85 and installed that and it's at 94m/s which is fine...but again worried that because I didn't cut the M85 that it is going to cause damage to other parts.
Was your damage explanation above based on any spring that isn't cut to proper length, or just the ANGEL because it was locking things up?