I listened to an interesting conversation on an Airsoft related podcast the other day. They were discussing The Gamer vs. The Player in airsoft.
The quick version is that there seems to be an influx of people joining airsoft as an emulation of video games. New, younger players are showing up in jeans and their COD2 or Army Of 2 load outs and they play a very quick, speedball type of game. Run, shot, get your kills, re-spawn, Go Go Go! The hosts are discussing this Gamer type attitude and what to do about it. They seem to teeter on the idea that veterans to the sport should spend more time taking new players under their wing and showing them how to play, guiding them, and working with them to become players. The counter argument is that the veterans still want to be able to play rather than have to be concerned with teaching new players.
I thought about TKO when I listened to this podcast. During my first game with TKO we started the day with a 5 man team. It was me and my two friends and tifast. Tifast took us under his wing and tried to give us a quick lesson on formation, flanking, position, etc. At the time me and my friends were so excited that we just ran in (like Gamers) and got pwnd. Poor tifast!
I have noticed that we have many new players signing up for the forum and coming out to games. I think this is great, as it will help make our games more enjoyable as we collect larger groups. I have only been playing for a year and a bit, and sometimes feel like a newbie myself. I wonder if we can do more as a community to support the new players?
Maybe we can start arranging two types of games...beginner and advanced?
Not sure, but I hope that the new members feel comfortable asking for advice, and that older players take the initiative and try to take a few players under their wing every game.
It was an interesting conversation on the podcast, and one that I wouldn't mind exploring here with our group. You can listen to it at their RSS feed. The main topic starts at about 32 minutes in.
http://opsec.libsyn.com/rss
Discuss
Its an age old observation. At the first airsoft event I attended I remarked to a veteran player about how awesome it was and how it was "just like counter strike". It's hard not to draw parallels between the two, but allowing those newbies to turn into what Hawaii is right now (A bunch of retards running around in shorts and tshirts bragging about how tough they are) is unacceptable.
As you mentioned, take them under your wing, teach them how to play and it will all fall into place. the first few games I played I stuck with some veterans and learned about tactical movement, radio communications, and pretty much how to have an awesome time!
Well, it could be a requirement, if you join TKO to play under the wing of a more experienced player for a couple of games and subject the acceptation to the team to a few discussions and sponsorship. It doesn't have to be "harsh", just to make sure the type of games we play is understood.
I think the idea of separating into beginner and advanced games is a bit classist. I wouldn't say I'm better or more mature than a brand new guy just because I've been to several games. Also, I don't feel that that is very welcoming to new players, or new members to the forum if we recommend they attend beginner games first. A better solution in my mind, would be to carefully mix up the teams for small group games to start the day. When Dstole and I went to our first game we had four people in our group, all new to tko. If tifast hadn't graciously agreed to join us, we probably would have filled out our ranks with another straggler, maybe another new player, and run around fragging and spawning, fragging and spawning. Tifast taught us about following your command structure, basic tactics, cover fire, flanking, etc.
By creating these teams, not along the lines of friends, or seniority, or who came together, but rather by making sure that new players are on teams with regular participants, not only do you create a mentoring envionement for the new players, you also force the new guys to meet other members and get to know the group a bit better. If four new guys come together, spilt them up onto four different 5-man teams to start the day. The other four members of the teams will be experienced tko members. The group of four new guys will pick up some strategy and philosophy, and between them, will meet 16 other players, forming a closer bond with the group.
I agree with Mr. Midget (don't they prefer to be called wee folk?) about team structure. The game I went to in the summer, the Mike Burrows (?) game was an absolute slaughter for us poor folks on the white team. It seemed like we had a concentration of new people simply because certain people (myself included) acted as hubs for newbies, bringing several people per person along.
To be quite honest, I'd much rather shoot my friend than have him on my team.
Good points everyone. I think my suggestion of beginner and advanced games was a reaction to the argument presented in the podcast that many veteran players might not want to be taking players under their wing, and want to just play like everyone else (not my perception, the one expressed in the podcast). I agree that team balance and grouping is important. I went to a public game today at No.9 and they had a "team" of 5 or 6 guys that were all on the same team with gas tanks and guns shooting about 30+ rounds a second...It was crazy, and we got owned all day. If the teams had been a bit more balanced it would have made for a much more enjoyable day.
I like your idea Thunder, and hope that we can continue to host enjoyable games that help the community grow.
Dstole... where's the picture of your face? I think tko members should see what could happen if you play a public game with guys that have no idea about safety! And yeah, having all those guys with CO2 systems on one team was a bit like the Mike Burrows game so splitting teams to try to make them even makes for a fun day for everyone and a great introduction to the game for rookies
Hmm... considering all the difference between player and gamer, I would like to suggest that maybe TKOverkill could do some training day. An ex-Special force operator as a teacher would be the best. We could rent a field for a day, and use it for training only, with player and gamer mixed up together as a team, and everybody can learn how to act as a team (good learning attitude is a most though...)
Actually, also I still consider myself a beginner in Airsoft, when we played that game mid December, I suddenly felt like the "experienced" one, since it was mostly beginners at that game.
Of course, people were a little less aware of the rules at that point, which brought to some issues for coordination, organization, and of course safety.
I'd say the game was still fun of course, but mostly because it was a little messy, and my rifle being down, I was running everywhere with a pistol in each hand. I wouldn't have been able to do that in a usual TKO game though, because strategy is usually much more important, along with accuracy.
Anyway, my point is, that indeed, if someone wishes to join the TKO team, then he/she should learn fully the rules, but the training can come in game too, like it was for me (thanks to many people here). Beginners should be warned, that Airsoft is NOT like Counter Strike, is not meant to, it's meant to be a military simulation. Cod and CS are anything but military simulation. If any game is close to Airsoft, I'd say the first Rainbow 6 and Operation Flashpoint.
The type of gameplay "a la" CS is bound to give short strategy, low involvement and high casualties type of games, not really screaming safety there.
Actually, most people abides the rules listed on the web(except the zombie part perhaps), but it is just a general safety guide for non-injury and fair play. Maybe what beginners (like me) should learn quickly is to learn how to act like a "real" squad on a firefight (instead of going gung-ho, with akimbo pistol like me and got shot on the lips
, anyhow, it's just a respawn game when I did that
)
The biggest problem is, real squads requires discipline that can only be learned at basic military traing, which us, civilian, lacks.
for me, type of game i want to play is determined by the group i am with. Its annoying to haev to teach someone tactics. I personally am not a great teacher, since i have not alot of patience. If the people im playing with know whats up, and can play like i would fight if i was in iraq, then yeah, im down. but it doesnt happen often.
So, when not there, i love to play the fast paced be awesomeness that is super fun. (Which, is alot like actual combat now adays)
This generation wasnt in Vietnam. They haven't had to crawl through bushes and forests. They fight in urban environments, where it is extremely fast paced and adrenaline pumping. unfortunately, about the only tactics we need in the forces nowadays is urban combat, nad room clearing.
oh yeah, and flanking.
The majority of the people in Afghanistan would like a word with you wagonofdoom...
i have friends in the marines and army, in afghanistan and iraq
One that just got shot
from the intel im getting the majority is in the city, and convoys.