Anyone know where to get these in Japan?
If not, I will order from AI directly...
Anyone else want one? We can share shipping.
Will order end of the week if I can't find one in Japan.
http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/GunGas.html
You cant get one in Japan, I've been to every store out there and have had no luck whatsoever. I ordered mine online a while ago since my last one broke.
I'd be concerned about finding propane here, I havent actually seen any for sale. That said, there's no way I'd be caught using weak ass 134a gas here, it's pretty much useless for GBBs, Marui or not. Tried it in my Marui detonics, brought my FPS down to 240 and made it sound horrible, never again. Make it happen, you wont be disappointed.
#1 if you wanna get AI products, look no further than Anarchy...he's AI's distributor in JP
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#2 I've been using an earlier version of AI's plastic and haven't had any problems still
#3 "we've" been getting propane from friends at the local base. No you cannot find propane in JP stores and honestly, don't even bother with the propane/butane mix you find in TokyuHands/Victoria (camping store), etc. You also won't find Coleman's Propane in CostCo. So your best be is to find a friend at the base, and get it through him...Coleman's propane is strangely not only easily available but cheap too.
I get my propane here on Yokota, it's about 3 bucks a can. Much better than 10+ dollars for half as much 134A.
I'd recommend the metal ones, my plastic one cracked a few weeks ago.
@ Wraith
You mentioned back in November that you would bring me some propane, but you weren't able to make it to the game. I let it go, as it wasn't that big a deal, but your comment sounds like you don't have access to it on the base? Sorry if I got you confused with someone else...
@ Q
Anarchy eh? AI distributor! Damn. Can I ask you for a few cans of propane. or should I ask someone from base directly...I think I knwo who you use, but I will PM you just to make sure. I imagine my GBB M4 will be much stronger on propane
Oops. sorry Wraith, you got your reply in as I was writing mine
@dStole: yes be careful with propane. On handguns, I can get mine close to 0.98J. I don't wanna know what it'll be on a hot day. As for M4 GBB's, at least for the ones I've played...standard positive pressure based nozzles with propane is almost always over 1J. So only way to go is with some kind of NPAS to bring it down to JP legal limits.
We've been using propane/NPAS merely to get close to 0.98J without going over. Otherwise, even a stock WA GBB with HFC134a can give you a reasonable 0.8 -> 0.9J.
I've been using AI's propane adaptor for a few years now, and if you take good care of it it'll last long. I have the metal one, and didn't know there was a plastic one. I buy propane on base and mix it with silicone as per the instructions. With my KJW M9, 134a will barely get me through a full magazine.. I haven't chronoe'd it with Propane but I would think it'd be bordering legal limitations in Japan.[/align]
Leon send me an pm
oh and guys with a stock Muari M9 I was shooting 99ms at seals last summer on propane...they over looked it because they said I would barley use my side arm
Why would you put silicon in the magazine? It's such a horrible, awful idea and it ruins your accuracy. Just lube the gun with heavy weight silicon before games and clean it after like you should anyway and you're set. Using silicon with propane just puts uneven amounts of silicon on parts on the inside that dont need and should have have lube on them, like the hop.
(16-03-2010 03:49 PM)Wraith Wrote: [ -> ]Why would you put silicon in the magazine? It's such a horrible, awful idea and it ruins your accuracy. Just lube the gun with heavy weight silicon before games and clean it after like you should anyway and you're set. Using silicon with propane just puts uneven amounts of silicon on parts on the inside that dont need and should have have lube on them, like the hop.
Silicone goes to the top of propane opening and it's a few drops for every X number of magazine fills. I've not had any problems with accuracy, or overlubed hop from doing so. Yet the silicone has helped with my magazine o-rings/lip on sealing.
The manufacturers have advised accordingly in their instruction manual from a few years back, and countless other propane adapter users have mentioned the same thing in other forums. You're the first to contradict this process.
P.S. not saying that you should not lube your gun/slide anyway but that's irrespective of using propane or HFC134a.
When you think it through logically, WHY would the propellant need to contain lube? Does putting silicone on the hop up of all places sound like a good idea? What about when it's in the barrel? Silicone in the barrel causes shot consistancy issues the same as it does when it's on the hop up. Not to mention all of the extra silicone that gets sprayed all over the inside of the GBB doing nothing but become a dirt magnet. Without constant cleaning it builds up and attracts dirt and dust. Silicone in green gas/134a doesnt "lubricate" the orings any more than propane does, what keeps the Orings in shape is maintaining a charge in the magazine at all times so they dont have a chance to shrink.
I've been using pure propane in GBBs since they were released (changed from 2002 since I cant remember if it was actually 02, might have been later) and havent had any issues with lubrication. When I switched to propane I noticed my guns were much cleaner at the end of the day and and had more accuracy when rapid firing, instead of the first shot going low because of the silicone in the hop they would all go exactly where they should.
I'm certainly not the first to hold this opinion, but it makes perfect sense, go ahead and give it a try.
EDIT: To follow up, I use heavy weight silicon oil to lubricate the valves on my GBBs every now and then to ensure they move smoothly. I've never had leaking issues with properly designed mags. My Detonics 45 is a whole other story.
I don't disagree with you about lube in the inner wall of buckings specifically (I gather that's what you mean by hopup since the hopup unit is made of multiple components). As for lube in the inner walls of the inner barrel, actually that's where I use the cleaning rod and some tissue/cleaning cloth for.
But this is about silicone in the propane and I have had issues with propane-only in mags whereby my o-rings & lip get dry (and eventually crack/leak). Of course if you're over generous with silicone in the propane, naturally you're overlubing the entire then what you say is true, but that wouldn't be following instructions.
BTW, both in Wikipedia and in AI Innovation's FAQ, propane + silicone = green gas :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Gas (note though references AI's research, so no "new" independent info here)
http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/art1.html
In short I've not had any problems with following AI's instructions of use (few drops of Silicone in propane for every few gas charges). However I have had magazine seal longevity issues I use prolonged propane with no silicone usage.
Evaporation of the compressed gases uses a lot of energy and occurs very quickly at the same time, as soon as the valve is released. Direct result is to freeze its surrounding (including part of silicon) and blowing anything on the way out with a lot of force (stronger than the BB's 1J).
Without lub in the gas, the silicon applied on the valve is blown away quite fast and as a result seals get damaged sooner, especially with propane since even more force is released during the decompression.
After that, hopup or barrel is another story, but seals wise, it's perfectly logical.
Hey as long as you guys are cool with having less accurate GBBs by all means add silicon to your magazines. Q, when you dont use silicone spray you dont need to worry as much about swabbing the crap out of the barrel. Thats not to say it wont be there, but it wont be as thick.
Periodic re conditioning of the seals has worked for me since I started playing airsoft, so YMMV. Q, I'm guessing you dont ever take your mags down and soak the orings? Once or twice a year along with leaving the mags with gas in them worked for me.